lesbian sexuality as inherently problematic

[Anandrine]

this is prompted by some discussions i've witnessed this week. do you think lesbian expressions of sexuality/sexual desire are held to higher/unfair standards of "feminism"? have you experienced other people--straight people or other lesbians--critiquing your personal sex life for being too ~heteronormative~ or the like? do you think there is pressure for lesbian sexuality to be 100% equal, reciprocative, and "pure" as possible?

here's three things i've witnessed this week that started me thinking about this:
1) an anon on tumblr accusing me of being a bad feminist and posting porn because... i reblogged someone's selfie of them in a rodeoh harness and shirt, i think
2) a discussion in a facebook group where someone (another lesbian) said she was "suspicious" of anything that mimicked men, specifically such as strapons
3) a comment from someone that equated her interest in "slight exhibitionism (e.g. masturbating in front of a partner)" with other more extreme kinks.

[jill]

I feel like this is similar to a lot of expectations of radical feminists in general. especially on tumblr hellscape, we all have to be like 100% perfect feminists or else we're super ~*~problematic~*~ and bad. like the discourse around drag culture like OK I UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S BAD BUT HAVE U EVER BEEN TO A DRAG SHOW IT'S FUN AS HELL!!!! it's the same with lesbians having to be "pure" all the time. like i was talking to my roommates (one is a bi radfem, other is a het normie with a tolerance for radical feminism) and i was like "i'm watching the x files and david duchovny is hot" and they were like "umm... jill... i thought u were gay..." like omfg i didn't mean like i wanna fuck him i just mean he's an attractive dude doesn't mean i'm attracted TO him like can you chill? so yes i agree lol.

[Deleted]

That's honestly one reason why I don't like to associate myself with (Tumblr) feminism. I've read too many posts along the lines of "Stop reblogging pictures of women's (naked, half-naked) bodies" or "Stop reblogging pictures of white skinny long-haired women", when I really like pictures of half-naked/naked women (not porn though, porn is gross), and I happen to be attracted to thin/fit long-haired women. I stopped caring about what they say and just reblog what I like, but I do agree that people/feminists try to dictate how lesbians should be to be "pure" or to be "feminist". I haven't seen posts like these or post policing by people who aren't feminists I think.

[Anandrine]

Sept 23, 2016 10:13:22 GMT -5 @caia said:

That's honestly one reason why I don't like to associate myself with (Tumblr) feminism. I've read too many posts along the lines of "Stop reblogging pictures of women's (naked, half-naked) bodies" or "Stop reblogging pictures of white skinny long-haired women", when I really like pictures of half-naked/naked women (not porn though, porn is gross), and I happen to be attracted to thin/fit long-haired women. I stopped caring about what they say and just reblog what I like, but I do agree that people/feminists try to dictate how lesbians should be to be "pure" or to be "feminist". I haven't seen posts like these or post policing by people who aren't feminists I think.

oh that second part is a good point. i do think if you run an aesthetic tumblr and you claim to be inclusive/diverse, people have a right to be like "um there's suspiciously only white people." i run one and i'm very conscious of including different presentations, body types, races, etc. and i also will not reblog anything by a male photographer. but it's way different when you are policing what pictures someone reblogs with #hot or whatever on their personal blog lol (barring porn etc)

[Deleted]

Sept 23, 2016 10:51:14 GMT -5 Anandrine said:

Sept 23, 2016 10:13:22 GMT -5 @caia said:

That's honestly one reason why I don't like to associate myself with (Tumblr) feminism. I've read too many posts along the lines of "Stop reblogging pictures of women's (naked, half-naked) bodies" or "Stop reblogging pictures of white skinny long-haired women", when I really like pictures of half-naked/naked women (not porn though, porn is gross), and I happen to be attracted to thin/fit long-haired women. I stopped caring about what they say and just reblog what I like, but I do agree that people/feminists try to dictate how lesbians should be to be "pure" or to be "feminist". I haven't seen posts like these or post policing by people who aren't feminists I think.

oh that second part is a good point. i do think if you run an aesthetic tumblr and you claim to be inclusive/diverse, people have a right to be like "um there's suspiciously only white people." i run one and i'm very conscious of including different presentations, body types, races, etc. and i also will not reblog anything by a male photographer. but it's way different when you are policing what pictures someone reblogs with #hot or whatever on their personal blog lol (barring porn etc)

Yes, good point! For an aesthetic tumblr about e.g. cute lesbian couples, there definitely should be diversity. I know quite a few who really do their best to include couples of different ethnicities and femme/femme, femme/butch and butch/butch couples and that's really nice to see!
I reblog posts to my password-protected personal blog and these thoughts of "Don't reblog naked women" always linger. I do get slightly wary of photos by men. I tend to avoid them, and also blogs which seem to be run by men about lesbians. That's a huge red flag.

Edit: I've just remembered some discourse about (mostly straight and bi, I think) feminists on Tumblr flipping their shit over lesbians reblogging a lot of Kate McKinnon after Ghostbusters because "Why do [they] only reblog the skinny white woman? Where's the love for the other characters?!" when they totally didn't understand how big of a deal it is for us to have an out and proud lesbian celebrity (portraying a lesbian character at that) to look up to. "Stop reblogging people like you and start reblogging people like me!!"

[theblondegoblin]

I swear the tumblr ideal for sexuality is "girl who makes out with friends at parties, but like, in a feminist way. dont actually have real long term relationships with women! thats p r o b l e m a t i c"

mostly its just weird, hearing the other young wlw talk around me irl. one lesbian said to me on our first date "I call myself lesbian for now, but I'll probably like men in the future" plus a whole lot of other stuff like that. its awful how tumblr gives this massive space for justifying and rationalizing ones self-loathing and insecurities, and worse that str8 women encourage it!

[Anandrine]

Sept 28, 2016 18:45:30 GMT -5 theblondegoblin said:

I swear the tumblr ideal for sexuality is "girl who makes out with friends at parties, but like, in a feminist way. dont actually have real long term relationships with women! thats p r o b l e m a t i c"

mostly its just weird, hearing the other young wlw talk around me irl. one lesbian said to me on our first date "I call myself lesbian for now, but I'll probably like men in the future" plus a whole lot of other stuff like that. its awful how tumblr gives this massive space for justifying and rationalizing ones self-loathing and insecurities, and worse that str8 women encourage it!

god, that's so said about what the girl said on your date although WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT ON A DATE. WITH ANOTHER WOMAN???

and yes yes--in additional to de-sexualizing, there's also a whole lot of "it's ok if you still like men or if you can't tell if your attraction to them is genuine or not! lesbians who still like men are valid!" like?? i get we want to be supportive of young lesbians struggling but you don't have to take it that far. and unfortunately, that's not limited to tumblr.

[eilonnwy]

i'm so tired of just getting messages that someone i follow or reblogged is problematic. used to be yeah, i reblogged from a couple of nasty people in a long reblog chain and thats fine deleting but now it's like you have to pass a purity test of who you follow and reblog from with the weakest accusations now

[theblondegoblin]

Sept 28, 2016 18:56:22 GMT -5 Anandrine said:

god, that's so said about what the girl said on your date although WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT ON A DATE. WITH ANOTHER WOMAN???

and yes yes--in additional to de-sexualizing, there's also a whole lot of "it's ok if you still like men or if you can't tell if your attraction to them is genuine or not! lesbians who still like men are valid!" like?? i get we want to be supportive of young lesbians struggling but you don't have to take it that far. and unfortunately, that's not limited to tumblr.

im not totally sure if I should go into details, but it was a really weird first date, and she'd been through a lot. she sent me an unintentionally rudely worded breakup text a few days after and I've never talked to her again. turns out that most of the fellow gay women going to art college are actually really insecure! who'da thunk! Not me, apparently.

I see the discourse around what even IS a lesbian all the time (and they never seem to like actual lesbians contributing to said discourse) like, I get it. compulsory het is a thing, and as someone who thought they were attracted to men for so long I get not feeling totally secure with callin urself a lesbian. but wtf is with ppl trying to define lesbian as anything but "woman attracted just to women and nothing else"? ppl who treat sexuality like its 100% a political choice OR just flat out impossible for a woman to be unattracted to men EVER are the fucking worst. compulsory "attraction" to men is NOTHING like real attraction to women!
Its so annoying how there's all these contradictory homophobic and lesbophobic arguments depending on what kind of het internet user you've run into today. just stick to the one idiot argument as to why Im Bad plz.