Gender Identity / Presentation

[Anandrine]

here's a big one to get us started! how do you define gender identity and presentation, and how would you describe yours? how did you come to that, has it changed over time, and do you think being a lesbian influences/d that? 

[heirloomparasite]

ahaha, i was looking for the discourse on here. *cracks knuckles* i'm here to make this an unsafe space (((not really.)))

so like i never really had the urge to identify out of womanhood at all.

i didn't really like being female biologically for a long time, though. locker rooms were a nightmare and i felt like if i had anything like breasts boys would stare at them and that idea made me feel sick to my stomach. also my periods sucked. but i never really looked at all those things and thought 'huh, i must be a boy.'

i always had only female friends with few exceptions and i never had the 'not like other girls' thing, but i did feel divorced from discussions of womanhood that revolved around femininity. i never really got into makeup, i do my nails badly once in a moon, i sometimes wear earrings and dresses on a whim, but it was never really systematic or ritualistic for me. it was really about picking and choosing. and i think my utter lack of desire for male validation--maybe it's because i'm gay, maybe it's just because i hate men--really freed me up to not worry about looking pretty all the time.

i also had a weird relationship to femininity because of being indian. a lot of indian girls i know are hyperfeminine. long hair perfect eyeliner etc. and i felt like a grubby little man compared to them. i also felt weirdly like a fake or like i was dressing in drag whenever i wore fancy indian clothes. and as i got older and realized i was into girls, i felt like i was gonna be called out for it any moment and the measure of me being straight would be boosted by better performing indian femininity, which i continued to fail at miserably. i still feel uneasy at indian cultural things.

[blackwatch]

i'm sex dysphoric, and i did use to identify as agender/neutrois, and i still use they pronouns on my tumblr. i still struggle with calling myself a woman.
i think most of my dysphoria comes from trauma, as well as being a lesbian. i have always been ashamed of being attracted to women and i wished i was asexual
evn with my dysphoria, i still can't bring myself to fully reject femininity. i still feel the need to wear an insane amount of make up to cover my natural face, my hair is dyed, my unibrow is neatly plucked, i starve myself to maintain that slender figure. i have a lot of insecurity about my body hair, especially as a persian/armenian person.
however, i still consider myself gender nonconforming to an extent. people have described my mannerisms and personality as "masculine" and i've even been mistaken for a male online

[Anandrine]

i think there's probably a lot to say about how cultural differences impact this too, so thank both of you for sharing bits of that!

i've never really considered myself dysphoric but i definitely identify with not being happy to be biologically female, but also not feeling like i should have been a boy. i am female and i'm fine with that. my discomfort has always been around my large breasts and my reproductive capability. when i was younger, it was mostly the former as a result of the attention i got (both from guys and from my mom). when i got older, i think i started associating these things with proper heterosexual womanhood, and i want no part of them. imagining myself as that--capable of reproduction and appealing to heterosexual men--just makes me feel uncomfortable. i had a breast reduction last year and am talking to a gyn about a hysterectomy next month. but neither of these things are me trying to get away from being a woman.

presentation-wise, i am pretty femme, but haven't always been. when i was dealing with the body stuff when i was younger, i tended to dress in boys' tshirts and jeans. at one point i even bound my chest. i know this is NOT the case for everyone, but doing so was not an expression of my real self, it was an attempt to i think not be appealing to men. as i started really realizing i was into girls, i also felt like i would be judged more harshly and so i shouldn't even bother attempting femininity. this personal reasoning meant that as i came to accept my sexuality and my body more, i experimented with different styles. and i think because my exploration of "feminine" was linked with my coming out as a lesbian, and later learning more about femme, i think there was more freedom there. i'm not saying there's no outside influence on how i present myself -- i probably wouldn't bother wearing foundation if i didn't feel the need to cover my acne scarring, for example -- but i do think it's a little less shackled to patriarchal expectations.

[ash]

as i started really realizing i was into girls, i also felt like i would be judged more harshly and so i shouldn't even bother attempting femininity

i guess i was the opposite - i dealt with internalised misogyny / homophobia by presenting in a more feminine way from about 14/15, uncoincidentally the time that i realised i was gay and came out - it also manifested in ugly stuff like "lesbians are girls who like girls, so we should look like girls! not shaving is so gross haha!" and even though i felt dysphoric about my body, appearance, and being perceived as a girl/woman, it was like being gay meant i couldn't start doing androgynous or masc presentation (except as a joke haha! just as a really funny halloween costume or dressing up for a party of course) bc i was so worried people would think Things (i don't even know what i thought would happen?? it just seemed like #perpetuatingstereotypes was somehow a terrible and maybe even dangerous thing to do)

briefly when i started university i started doing baby lesbian looks, wearing ties, men's blazers, etc, but then i started dating a bi woman who was trebly as awful as i'd been abt butch/dyke aesthetic stuff so... it was really only when i started dating andy, literally when i first met her IRL and she had unshaven legs, it was like a train hit me and the train was painted along the side, "YOU'RE ALLOWED TO NOT SHAVE" - like, i could be That Gay and i was still, you know, worthy of love & desirable & deserving of basic respect etc - so, definitely, 100%, my feelings about gender and gender presentation have been thoroughly affected by being a lesbian. and becoming more comfortable as a lesbian/partner has led to me becoming a lot more comfortable about being female. dysphoric thoughts/feelings haven't vanished, and do heighten in circumstances like 1) i realise i am being observed/judged As A Woman, eg. people staring at my leg hair on trains, heterocentric/heterosexist moments with acquaintances, etc; or 2) i am confronted with Masculine Options eg. very cool menswear displays involving jackets i KNOW would never fit my hips, haircuts i would feel uncomfortable having in a job interview, etc. but they're more like intrusive thoughts than ideation or dwelling or whatnot. 

anyway my current definition of gender identity, which i realise is a little circular, would be something like, your personal response to the social gendering of your sexed body. are you happy, comfortable, apathetic, or disgusted by what society associates with your chromosones? and then what is your response to that feeling? the 'response' part here could be conscious, or unconscious, or both, and i think you can be aware of it as early as you're aware of a male/female distinction.

but it's hard to use one definition to encompass people who choose to identify a certain way - eg. lesbians who are deeply uncomfortable in their bodies and in a lesbophobic environment, but don't feel transition is a right descriptive or a right choice for them - and on the other hand people who do not experience their identity as a choice. i guess it sounds a bit fallacy of middle ground, but it's more like, since both of these groups exist, it always seems grossly patronising to use definitions which only allow for choice, or innateness - or "everything is a social construct and nothing is real" - as well as prefacing terrible people picking these arguments up and running full tilt in the "Biggest Transphobe" or "Biggest Misogynist" race ("trans people are fake" vs "vagina bearers do not socially experience anything related to being vagina bearers" / "FAAB privilege")

[eilonnwy]

I am a butch lesbian so yeah my gender representation definitely relies on my lesbian one, it definitely is why I love flannel lol.

for me I always had a hard time performing femininity so to speak and a lot of that has to do with my mental illnesses too. tbh I'm just really lazy with my so called "style" but it's considered masculine so I just finally embraced that and finally stopped forcing myself to wear things that are not me

[jill]

i was always pretty feminine growing up, in high school i cut my hair short but still wore makeup and dresses and heels and stuff but i was like /alt/ so it wasnt SUPER femme, in college when i realized im a lesbian i started dressing much more butch. i wouldnt like say i AM butch but im definitely gender non conforming, probably like butch leaning futch. but i kinda felt like once i started id'ing as gay it like gave me permission to look unfeminine kinda? like i always wanted to stop wearing makeup and stop shaving but i felt like i wasnt allowed to bc socialization and stuff but once i was a lesbian i was like ok the rules dont apply to me anymore lmao

[womantic]

I spent a lot of effort trying to be feminine when I was 13/14/15, but it never really worked out for me and when I started coming out to myself/other people I stopped wearing dresses & make up and then started wearing men's clothes and then cut my hair off and I've been much happier with my style & overall appearance. I go back and forth on calling myself butch, because I really identify with butch women and writings about being butch but sometimes feel like I still look too feminine (mostly because of my size) and also am not that comfortable using the word because it originated with working class women and don't want to be appropriating that experience.

Gender wise, I don't like it and don't "identify" as anything but connect strongly with womanhood as a lesbian & feminist, which I feel like is a common experience. Like, I want to be a woman because I love other women and love being a lesbian and because I'm proud of what women have accomplished in history & in the face of oppression, if that makes sense.

[bookwormlesbian]

I'm lucky in that I was labelled a girl at birth and have always felt like a girl.

As far as presentation, femininity, and such goes, I always wished I was more feminine because I thought it would make people accept me, but interestingly, I did very little to actually try to make myself appear feminine. I always just wore t-shirts and jeans, nothing that could be considered fashionable even as far as t-shirts and jeans are concerned. I'd think about how I wished I could dress more feminine, but when it came time to try on new clothes, there would be a stressful half hour or so of trying other stuff on before giving up. It's probably worth mentioning here that I'm also autistic, which means I have some sensory sensitivities. I think that's ultimately the reason why I dress the way I do. (My childhood consisted of full on meltdowns when I was put in clothes that were uncomfortable to me.) So I'm not sure how much my "style" actually relates back to gender expression for me, and I can't begin to guess how I would be dressing/have dressed in the past if it weren't for my sensory sensitivity.

Makeup has always been uncomfortable to me too but to a much lesser degree. I did try wearing it for a while, but ultimately, I decided that I would rather do other things with the time that I would otherwise spend putting on makeup. Later, I also became self-conscious that if I tried putting it on, it probably wouldn't actually look that good, which people would judge me for.

Actually, that last part probably reflects a lot of my struggle with femininity. I'm more comfortable without doing a lot of what is considered feminine by society (both in looks and personality and such), but I've felt the pressure to be more feminine. Really, I think not caving to the pressure had a lot to do with a feeling that I'd be laughed at if I tried to act feminine, which is strange because I had a desire to be more feminine to be liked??? None of it actually makes sense to me either.